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| sleeper54 |
Posted: Feb 01 '08, 6:33 pm |
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Reviews written: 433 Member since: Feb 24 '01
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Back in the day...
...
Back in the day much of what you might be able to 'find out' about a book might be its title, author, and genre. At best a one or two sentence synopsis.
Today, so much more can be found and digested. From enhanced library guides to better educated staff and teachers to the vast Internet world of publisher, reader, and review sites that offer much more about a story, the author, and the value of the story.
While the serendipitous act of finding a book of a particular 'genre' on a library shelf might be hindered by 'mashing everything together', I doubt little else would be. Good (or bad) books will still be 'found out' and the word spread more easily by fans and critics alike.
...tom...
P.S. Perhaps libraries and 'fiction book sorting' would work equally well by 'tagging' them as photo (and other) sites do now. That would really scramble the idea of genre.
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| panguitch |
Posted: Feb 04 '08, 9:24 am |
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Reviews written: 275 Member since: Jul 30 '02
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RE: Back in the day...
Tagging, folksonomies, social cataloging, it's all a very hot topic for libraries today, with champions and detractors.
Those against it argue for continued adherence to controlled vocabularies, and that the breakdown of these reduces seach effectiveness and clarity of classification.
Those for cite its flexibility, user-involvement, and most of all, it's low expense.
Personally, I don't think traditional methods are anything holy, but at the same time I'm not yet sold on the worth of tagging, at least not as a replacement for authority control.
-Andy |
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| sleeper54 |
Posted: Feb 14 '08, 1:03 pm |
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Reviews written: 433 Member since: Feb 24 '01
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RE: Back in the day...
Quote: panguitch --snip--
...at least not as a replacement for authority control.
-Andy
...truelol...
Just noticed this response . . .and your brilliant final point.
However I respond to it will simply get me in trouble ...so I will just chuckle once again to myself.
...:minism:...
...tom...
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| dolphinboy |
Posted: Sep 03 '08, 8:03 am |
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Reviews written: 410 Member since: Apr 15 '06
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RE: Should genre be abolished?
Perhaps sci-fi and fantasy should be side-by-side, with the over-arching megagenre of speculative fiction, and the fuzzy books lodged smack between undeniable sci-fi and undeniable fantasy. |
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| jsgoddess |
Posted: Sep 03 '08, 1:37 pm |
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Reviews written: 140 Member since: Apr 06 '00
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In an ideal world...
I'd like to see books put into as many categories as they fit, rather than shelved (figuratively or literally) in only one place.
So, you have Asimov's Caves of Steel (I think that's the right book) and it's both sf and a mystery. So you put it both places (or at least put notice of it both places saying where to look).
I was shopping for shoes online a couple of days ago, and I was frustrated by one site that was making me choose the shoe type by a very narrow set of criteria. I had to choose between "casual" shoes and "slip ons" and the twain didn't meet.
That level of granularity might make sense for the people at the selling end, but not for those of us who are looking for shoes. Or books! |
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| scmrak |
Posted: Sep 04 '08, 9:39 am (Updated: Sep 04 '08, 9:45 am) |
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Reviews written: 1192 Member since: Sep 27 '00
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RE: In an ideal world...
Quote: jsgoddess I'd like to see books put into as many categories as they fit, rather than shelved (figuratively or literally) in only one place. With cross-referencing? So that Asimov's Caves of Steel (plus The Currents of Space, The Naked Suns, and The Robots of Dawn) would appear in both? Yeah, sure. Overgranularity is probably no better than undergranularity, though, if a book can only appear in one pigeonhole (speaking catalog-wise, not physical books).
Seems to me that a multi-dimensional hierarchical model would be ideal: that way The Caves of Steel would lie on overlapping "shelves," with instances under "speculative fiction > science fiction > semi-soft> futuristic," "mystery > murder> police procedural > futuristic," "fiction > agorophobia" and any others it might fit.
The same as your shoe search needs to be able to come to the same pair whether you start under "fastening type = slip-on" or "style = casual," a seeker of books should be able to get to the Asimov book from any portal. Seems to me that's the way to get people to "read outside the box," as it were.
-30-
rex
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| anderclayton |
Posted: Sep 05 '08, 2:00 am |
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Reviews written: 50 Member since: Dec 18 '99
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RE: Back in the day...
Quote: panguitch Tagging, folksonomies, social cataloging, it's all a very hot topic for libraries today, with champions and detractors.
Personally I'm rather frustrated (ticked off really) because my local library puts books of stories in the nonfiction section. Many of the authors I read also have books of stories which are hidden in some goofy place that I have no clue and I can't find the freaking things if I look by their name. Talked to the librarian and she gave some song and dance about how a lot of libraries are doing it. Bleh. Not impressed.
Ander |
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| anderclayton |
Posted: Sep 05 '08, 2:30 am |
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Reviews written: 50 Member since: Dec 18 '99
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RE: Should genre be abolished?
Awww, what the heck. To get more on topic...:)
My library actually also (in addition to not filing books of stories correctly;) ) files all fiction writing in the same group. Personally I don't like it. I find it a pain in the butt to find books I want to read and generally just look for specific authors rather than branching out. I don't think I've read a single fiction book that isn't in SF/Fantasy since I moved here though. :) Maybe I'm overstating things a bit there but...
Do I think that the "science fiction" or "fantasy" categories ghettoize (spelling doesn't look right) books? To some degree I think that it does. I think that the term "genre" does also though given that neither classification really works as a genre except in a fairly narrow set of books (and even there science fiction is seperated into subsets rather than a straight genre).
Personally though, I also think that the term "speculative fiction" is rather banal and is a way to essentially cause both science fiction and fantasy to lose meaning and make them each rather generic. It does not deghettoize them though but rather lumps them into an all purpose ghetto that really doesn't do anything for them at all.
I find Literary fiction to be as similar to itself as anything that acedemia terms "genre" fiction though which is a big thing that frustrates me about literary snobs.
Hmmm. I could go on a bit on the topic but not right now.
Ander |
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| jsgoddess |
Posted: Sep 05 '08, 8:33 am |
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Reviews written: 140 Member since: Apr 06 '00
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RE: In an ideal world...
Quote: scmrak Seems to me that a multi-dimensional hierarchical model would be ideal: that way The Caves of Steel would lie on overlapping "shelves," with instances under "speculative fiction > science fiction > semi-soft> futuristic," "mystery > murder> police procedural > futuristic," "fiction > agorophobia" and any others it might fit.
The same as your shoe search needs to be able to come to the same pair whether you start under "fastening type = slip-on" or "style = casual," a seeker of books should be able to get to the Asimov book from any portal. Seems to me that's the way to get people to "read outside the box," as it were.
Exactly, though you made it much more coherent than I could have. :)
Julie
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| pearannoyed |
Posted: Sep 15 '08, 6:49 am |
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Reviews written: 197 Member since: Oct 03 '03
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RE: Should genre be abolished?
This whole discussion is making me think of the more incendiary issue of race.
There's no doubt that race, cultural heritage and physical traits are one way of classifying people. And at times those descriptions can be very useful. But that's also a very superficial and potentially degrading type of categorization - especially if it's the only trait that's taken into account.
Far more important in knowing what a person is "like", but harder to define, are issues of personality, interests, social values, morals, ethics, beliefs, etc.
The problem comes in finding people that you like & mesh with, but that you wouldn't naturally cross paths with. |
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| talyseon |
Posted: Sep 18 '08, 11:45 pm |
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Reviews written: 469 Member since: Jan 17 '08
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RE: Should genre be abolished?
Quote: panguitch
A major motivation for her is that genre has lost its utility. Instead of being a tool to help people contextualize what they read, it has become a tool which the elite have used to ghettoize literatures they don't appreciate.
-Andy
Genre may have lost some of the cutting edge of its utility, but that doesn't mean you throw out the tool...when an axe gets dull, you sharpen it. And you certainly don't dispose of it without a replacement.
Instead, I suggest taking a rolled up newspaper vigorously to the elite. That is where the problem lies.
Talyseon. |